From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In February I mentioned getting an Argon NEO 5 NVMe case for my Pi 5.

It was slightly fiddly to put it all together, but not really outside expectations. Linux was able to see my SSD without any trouble.

However I have not been able to get the Pi to boot directly from the
SSD. It can see there’s something there but can’t interpret it properly; the diagnostic output (copy-typed) is:

NVME on 0
Trying partition: 0
Unable to read partition as FAT
type: 32 lba: 0 '' ' ' clusters 0 (0)
Trying partition: 0
Unable to read partition as FAT
type: 32 lba: 0 '' ' ' clusters 0 (0)
NVME off
Timeout 00000000 3c303020 00000000 00000000
nvme: error 8
Failed to open device: 'nvme'

(Why is there ASCII ‘ 00<’ in the timeout message?)

My solution was to boot from the SD card but to configure it (via
cmdline.txt and /etc/fstab) to mount the root system from the SSD. This
works (and it’s not like the performance & capacity of the firmware
partition is very important) though there are now two points of failure.

My interpretation of all this is that the hardware is connecting the SSD perfectly well, and the Linux kernel talks to it correctly, but the boot
loader is failing to communicate properly with the SSD.

Based on forum posts there are many compatibility issues between the Pi
5 and NVMe devices, so anyone planning to buy one should do their
research first.

In my case the SSD is a Crucial CT1000P5SSD8; I had it left over from a decommissioned PC.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 21/05/2024 22:26, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

In February I mentioned getting an Argon NEO 5 NVMe case for my Pi 5.

It was slightly fiddly to put it all together, but not really outside expectations. Linux was able to see my SSD without any trouble.

However I have not been able to get the Pi to boot directly from the
SSD. It can see there’s something there but can’t interpret it properly; the diagnostic output (copy-typed) is:

NVME on 0
Trying partition: 0
Unable to read partition as FAT
type: 32 lba: 0 '' ' ' clusters 0 (0)
Trying partition: 0
Unable to read partition as FAT
type: 32 lba: 0 '' ' ' clusters 0 (0)
NVME off
Timeout 00000000 3c303020 00000000 00000000
nvme: error 8
Failed to open device: 'nvme'

(Why is there ASCII ‘ 00<’ in the timeout message?)

My solution was to boot from the SD card but to configure it (via
cmdline.txt and /etc/fstab) to mount the root system from the SSD. This
works (and it’s not like the performance & capacity of the firmware partition is very important) though there are now two points of failure.

My interpretation of all this is that the hardware is connecting the SSD perfectly well, and the Linux kernel talks to it correctly, but the boot loader is failing to communicate properly with the SSD.

Based on forum posts there are many compatibility issues between the Pi
5 and NVMe devices, so anyone planning to buy one should do their
research first.

In my case the SSD is a Crucial CT1000P5SSD8; I had it left over from a decommissioned PC.

Indeed. Recent pi hardware and the new bookworm release have some rough
edges.
In this case it looks like it (the bootloader) cant find the FAT
partition. Now that could be that it is making some unwarranted
assumptions about where on the disk that actually is.

And the disk has it either elsewhere, or mapped internally to elsewhere.

I note that it is trying partition 0..
is that actually where the FAT volume resides?

I mean could it be simply a case of reformatting the NVME to put the FAT partition where the firmware 'expects' it to be.

I had similar issues doing all usb boot...but stumbed on a config that
worked using my tame team of random monkeys....
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

In this case it looks like it (the bootloader) cant find the FAT
partition.

Agreed.

Now that could be that it is making some unwarranted assumptions about
where on the disk that actually is.

And the disk has it either elsewhere, or mapped internally to elsewhere.

I note that it is trying partition 0..
is that actually where the FAT volume resides?

It is, yes. It’s the same layout as the SD card.

The diagnostics (‘cluster 0 etc’) suggest that whatever it thinks it’s reading, it’s not getting the data that’s actually on the SSD.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22/05/2024 15:02, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

In this case it looks like it (the bootloader) cant find the FAT
partition.

Agreed.

Now that could be that it is making some unwarranted assumptions about
where on the disk that actually is.

And the disk has it either elsewhere, or mapped internally to elsewhere.

I note that it is trying partition 0..
is that actually where the FAT volume resides?

It is, yes. It’s the same layout as the SD card.

The diagnostics (‘cluster 0 etc’) suggest that whatever it thinks it’s reading, it’s not getting the data that’s actually on the SSD.

Yeah. I assumed you had done all the obvious stuff.

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a
lot of current at boot time
--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a
lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

If it’s a power issue then it has to persist for minutes while the
firmware is trying to boot (BOOT_ORDER=0xf461, so it loops around
candidate devices indefinitely if it can’t find anything suitable) but instantly stop as soon as it’s loaded the kernel from the boot partition
on the SD card. Not impossible, I suppose, but even if I had the tools/inclination to rule it in or out, it wouldn’t change the (local) solution...
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 09:03, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a
lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

I bought a Pi5 without the official PSU, or even a Pi4 official PSU. It
would run for a minute or two and then crash. Completely unusable. It is
now fine with the official PSU. I hadn't realised my high wattage USB
chargers achieved the high wattage by negotiating a higher voltage. A
strategy which was unusable by the Pi. The Pi being non-standard
irritates me.

You have a reasonable solution, so why not chill for a bit, see if a
firmware release fixes it, in the fullness of time.

I did see some mention of the type of FAT causing problems, i.e. exFAT=bad.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a
lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

Official *27W* power supply? At least that's what Argon recommends.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

In February I mentioned getting an Argon NEO 5 NVMe case for my Pi 5.

It was slightly fiddly to put it all together, but not really outside expectations. Linux was able to see my SSD without any trouble.

However I have not been able to get the Pi to boot directly from the
SSD. It can see there’s something there but can’t interpret it properly; the diagnostic output (copy-typed) is:

Did you configure your Pi to boot from the SSD? You didn't say anything
about that. Argon seems to provide a couple of scripts to config a Pi
for that. Which is a little scary but I assume those steps in their
scripts are needed. Although the settings listed are just a few in
eeprom config and config.txt.

In my case the SSD is a Crucial CT1000P5SSD8; I had it left over from a decommissioned PC.

I saw a list of tested SSDs somewhere, here's one:

https://forum.argon40.com/t/argon-neo-5-nvme-case-with-wd-red-sn700-1tb/2339/2

It lists Crucial P2, P3 and P3 Plus.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 09:44, Pancho wrote:

On 23/05/2024 09:03, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a
lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

I bought a Pi5 without the official PSU, or even a Pi4 official PSU. It would run for a minute or two and then crash. Completely unusable. It is
now fine with the official PSU.

There is an entry in config.txt that 'tells' the pi that it has a high
power power supply.
Otherwise it has to do an appl-ish sort of negotiation with its PSU to
see if it is.
--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 10:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 23/05/2024 09:44, Pancho wrote:

On 23/05/2024 09:03, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a >>>> lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

I bought a Pi5 without the official PSU, or even a Pi4 official PSU.
It would run for a minute or two and then crash. Completely unusable.
It is now fine with the official PSU.

There is an entry in config.txt that 'tells' the pi that it has a high
power power supply.
Otherwise it has to do an appl-ish sort of negotiation with its PSU to
see if it is.

No, I was talking about the USB standard. This is from memory, so take
with a pinch of salt.

I have high wattage USB C chargers for mobiles, pads etc. They quote 20
or 25 watts. Given I wasn't using any USB power draining devices, I
assumed this would be OK for the Pi 5.

However, it wasn't OK, Pi 5 crashed. When I looked at the USB small
print, the charger achieved a high wattage by boosting the voltage from
5v to 20v, still using a relatively low amps. AIUI, this is USB standard.

However, the Pi requires 5v (maybe even 5.1v) and a high 5 amps. Which
is totally non-standard and makes the Pi 5 USB PSU effectively bespoke.
I suppose, but haven't tested, the Pi 5 PSU is also no good to fast
charge your mobile.

Presumably there is some good cost justification, but I don't like it.
The Orange Pi 5 is fine on a standard USB fast charger, but it is
generally lower power than the Raspberry Pi 5.




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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

On 23/05/2024 10:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 23/05/2024 09:44, Pancho wrote:

On 23/05/2024 09:03, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

No problems with wimpy power supplies? apparently pi's and ssds take a >>>>> lot of current at boot time

It’s the official PSU.

I bought a Pi5 without the official PSU, or even a Pi4 official PSU.
It would run for a minute or two and then crash. Completely unusable.
It is now fine with the official PSU.

There is an entry in config.txt that 'tells' the pi that it has a high
power power supply.
Otherwise it has to do an appl-ish sort of negotiation with its PSU to
see if it is.

No, I was talking about the USB standard. This is from memory, so take
with a pinch of salt.

I have high wattage USB C chargers for mobiles, pads etc. They quote 20
or 25 watts. Given I wasn't using any USB power draining devices, I
assumed this would be OK for the Pi 5.

However, it wasn't OK, Pi 5 crashed. When I looked at the USB small
print, the charger achieved a high wattage by boosting the voltage from
5v to 20v, still using a relatively low amps. AIUI, this is USB standard.

However, the Pi requires 5v (maybe even 5.1v) and a high 5 amps. Which
is totally non-standard and makes the Pi 5 USB PSU effectively bespoke.
I suppose, but haven't tested, the Pi 5 PSU is also no good to fast
charge your mobile.

Presumably there is some good cost justification, but I don't like it.
The Orange Pi 5 is fine on a standard USB fast charger, but it is
generally lower power than the Raspberry Pi 5.

5 Volts at 5 amps is within the USB power spec, albeit less commonly used.
--
Chris

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

high wattage

For God's sake it's high power or high current. Saying high wattage
makes you look ignorant. Like all the left pondians who say "it's
negative 15 today" when they mean "minus 15".


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 16:18, mm0fmf wrote:

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

high wattage

For God's sake it's high power or high current. Saying high wattage
makes you look ignorant.

But I is ignorant. I was posting for other ignorant people so they would
not make the mistakes wot I made.

I was also wrong, on a number of items:

5 amp is USB standard, as Chris points out, although the rPi5 PSU seems
to be unique in offering it.

The rPi5 charger does up the voltage for devices that expect it, still
limited to 27w.

Also, like the rPi5 the orange Pi5 seems also to be just 5v, but it gets
away with normal USB chargers.

Like all the left pondians who say "it's
negative 15 today" when they mean "minus 15".

Tomato Tomatoe.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23 May 2024 at 16:18:59 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

high wattage

For God's sake it's high power or high current. Saying high wattage
makes you look ignorant. Like all the left pondians who say "it's
negative 15 today" when they mean "minus 15".

High wattage *is* high power. Power is measured in watts.
--
Tim
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 18:46, TimS wrote:

On 23 May 2024 at 16:18:59 BST, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

high wattage

For God's sake it's high power or high current. Saying high wattage
makes you look ignorant. Like all the left pondians who say "it's
negative 15 today" when they mean "minus 15".

High wattage *is* high power. Power is measured in watts.
Only for DC or when the PF is 1.

High power covers all cases which is why it was emphasised we use that
in the 2 years of motors and power distribution modules in my Electrical
& Electronic Engineering degree. Or we used VA.

The terms wattage and ampage were never used in any of the books /
teaching material I used at the time.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> writes:

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

In February I mentioned getting an Argon NEO 5 NVMe case for my Pi 5.

It was slightly fiddly to put it all together, but not really outside
expectations. Linux was able to see my SSD without any trouble.

However I have not been able to get the Pi to boot directly from the
SSD. It can see there’s something there but can’t interpret it properly; >> the diagnostic output (copy-typed) is:

Did you configure your Pi to boot from the SSD?

Yes.

(It’s directly referenced in one of my later posts, but you could work
it out from the diagnostics, which show it attempting to boot from NVMe
and failing.)
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In article <v2n70q$1lih1$3@dont-email.me>,
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

I have high wattage USB C chargers for mobiles, pads etc. They quote 20
or 25 watts. Given I wasn't using any USB power draining devices, I
assumed this would be OK for the Pi 5.

However, it wasn't OK, Pi 5 crashed. When I looked at the USB small
print, the charger achieved a high wattage by boosting the voltage from
5v to 20v, still using a relatively low amps. AIUI, this is USB standard.

However, the Pi requires 5v (maybe even 5.1v) and a high 5 amps. Which
is totally non-standard and makes the Pi 5 USB PSU effectively bespoke.
I suppose, but haven't tested, the Pi 5 PSU is also no good to fast
charge your mobile.

Something like this ought to work, though I've not tested it as I don't have
a Raspberry Pi 5 (though I do have a OnePlus 7 Pro):

https://amzn.to/4bRBmtE

"Warp Charge" is a low-voltage (5V), high-current charging scheme OnePlus
has used on some of its phones. 6A (from a 30W charger) ought to be more
than enough for anything that Raspberry Pi is currently shipping.
--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 12:28, Chris Townley wrote:

5 Volts at 5 amps is within the USB power spec, albeit less commonly used.

It would be unusual to come across a USB-PD power supply that did 5V 5A.

5A is a relatively recent addition to the USB-PD spec. Previously it
stopped at 3A. My 45W Samsung USB-PD charger gets 45W by doing 15V 3A.
My USB-PD laptop charger gets 60W by doing 20V 3A.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 23/05/2024 16:18, mm0fmf wrote:

On 23/05/2024 11:50, Pancho wrote:

high wattage

For God's sake it's high power or high current. Saying high wattage
makes you look ignorant. Like all the left pondians who say "it's
negative 15 today" when they mean "minus 15".

That rant makes you sound like a weirdo.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

On 23/05/2024 12:28, Chris Townley wrote:

5 Volts at 5 amps is within the USB power spec, albeit less commonly used.

It would be unusual to come across a USB-PD power supply that did 5V 5A.

5A is a relatively recent addition to the USB-PD spec. Previously it
stopped at 3A. My 45W Samsung USB-PD charger gets 45W by doing 15V 3A.
My USB-PD laptop charger gets 60W by doing 20V 3A.

I have a 130W Dell USB-C PSU. It does USB-PD but strangely: it only
supports 5V and 20V, both at 6.5A. So you can charge things that aren't
Dell laptops, but slowly. Normally phones etc would switch up to 9, 12 or
15V to pull more power, but this doesn't have those rails. They continue
to charge from 5V at whatever max current they're happy to take (2A, 3A?) - like a dumb USB-A wall charger.

I haven't tried it on a Pi5, but I expect it would work just fine.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> writes:

It would be unusual to come across a USB-PD power supply that did 5V 5A.

5A is a relatively recent addition to the USB-PD spec. Previously it
stopped at 3A. My 45W Samsung USB-PD charger gets 45W by doing 15V
3A. My USB-PD laptop charger gets 60W by doing 20V 3A.

5V 5A is common on Samsung phones though. No doubt they did that to sell
more chargers since it's unusual, I think even today. Plus their phones
don't come with chargers.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Pancho wrote:

I was curious, so I did a bit of digging, it appears my nvme drive is running as PCIe gen 1. The oPi5 should be gen 3, The nvme drive should
be gen 3.

Not an rPi, not even an oPi, but an interesting looking device ...

<https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=294>

A carrier board for a rockchip compute module, gives
four M.2 slots (each only single lane of gen3 if using all four)
2.5Gbps ethernet
bunch of USB/HDMI
usual GPIO, CSI/DSI, etc

looks like a brilliant device, it feels like a brilliant device, but nothing quite works properly

That sort of issue could be the kicker with the friendlyelec ...

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