From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards.
They just do not boot!

What am I missing?
(Apart from not seeing the letters TF in the adverts)!
--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 5/20/24 09:03, nev young wrote:

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards.
They just do not boot!

What am I missing?
(Apart from not seeing the letters TF in the adverts)!

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-a-tf-card/
--

Knute Johnson

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Knute Johnson <knute2024@585ranch.com> wrote:

On 5/20/24 09:03, nev young wrote:

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards. They just do not boot!

What am I missing?
(Apart from not seeing the letters TF in the adverts)!

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-a-tf-card/

I think the name TF is a hack used by mainly Chinese sellers to avoid the SD Card Association trademarks.

Originally SD cards were intended to be used as a DRMed medium (hence the 'Secure' bit of the name) - the idea was you could buy songs on SD cards
that you could play but not copy. I'm not sure if the DRM parts were
present in the TF standard to begin with, but since it was adopted by the SD card association they have been for years. Nobody uses them today anyway.

So TF == microSD.

OP, what cards are you having problems with? Where did you buy them from?
Any chances they are fakes?

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 20/05/2024 17:37, Theo wrote:

Knute Johnson <knute2024@585ranch.com> wrote:

On 5/20/24 09:03, nev young wrote:

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards.
They just do not boot!

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-a-tf-card/

Yup. seen all of that before.

So TF == microSD.

and yet they don't work! At least for me.
Has anyone ever booted a Pi (of any sort) using a TF card?

OP, what cards are you having problems with? Where did you buy them from? Any chances they are fakes?

Both bought from, and returned to Amazon.
and yes, of course, they could be fakes.

these : https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLSDMRSW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

and these:
http://nevilley.org.uk/tmp/Untitled.png

All of these cards do work and store the advertised amount of data.
Using Raspi imager as well as Linux program Disks to write/read/verify
64Gb images and run benchmarks, which do work but show very low
read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).
--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22/05/2024 08:10, nev young wrote:

Both bought from, and returned to Amazon.
and yes, of course, they could be fakes.

these : https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLSDMRSW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

and these:
http://nevilley.org.uk/tmp/Untitled.png

All of these cards do work and store the advertised amount of data.
Using Raspi imager as well as Linux program Disks to write/read/verify
64Gb images and run benchmarks, which do work but show very low
read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

No chance the exFAT format is the problem?
I've never used more than 32 GB cards.
The slow speed is implied in the spec.

I usually use SanDisk.

David
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22/05/2024 08:31, David Taylor wrote:

On 22/05/2024 08:10, nev young wrote:

Both bought from, and returned to Amazon.
and yes, of course, they could be fakes.

these :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLSDMRSW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

and these:
http://nevilley.org.uk/tmp/Untitled.png

All of these cards do work and store the advertised amount of data.
Using Raspi imager as well as Linux program Disks to write/read/verify
64Gb images and run benchmarks, which do work but show very low
read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

No chance the exFAT format is the problem?

No. They get re-formatted to EXT4 during the imaging process.

I've never used more than 32 GB cards.

I have 3 Pi using 64Gb cards without a problem. The rest use 8 or 32GB
cards. I think they're currently all Sandisk although I have used some
others (Lidl , Fuji , Samsung)

The slow speed is implied in the spec.

Cut from the ad --
▲Fast Transfer Speed - The Micro SDXC card adopts Speed Class UHS-I(U1)
and Class 10(C10) and provides you with 80MB/s of read speed and 15MB/s
of write speed, and supports full HD video recording. (The Performance
may vary based on host device, interface, usage conditions, and other factors.)


I usually use SanDisk too but had run out of the 64Gb cards.
The 32Gb cards in use, in security cameras, are getting past 92% full on
one of the cameras, hence me wanting a larger card.
--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

On 20/05/2024 17:37, Theo wrote:

Knute Johnson <knute2024@585ranch.com> wrote:

On 5/20/24 09:03, nev young wrote:

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards. >>> They just do not boot!

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-a-tf-card/

Yup. seen all of that before.

So TF == microSD.

and yet they don't work! At least for me.
Has anyone ever booted a Pi (of any sort) using a TF card?

There's no such thing as a TF card, aside from 20 year old ones.
MicroSD and TF are one and the same.

OP, what cards are you having problems with? Where did you buy them from? Any chances they are fakes?

Both bought from, and returned to Amazon.
and yes, of course, they could be fakes.

these : https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLSDMRSW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

and these:
http://nevilley.org.uk/tmp/Untitled.png

So you got 2x512GB for £20? That sounds exceedingly dodgy. Currently a single Sandisk 512GB card is £40.

No idea about the 'Kootion' cards - but I'd stick to known brands, and avoid those shipped by marketplace sellers.

All of these cards do work and store the advertised amount of data.
Using Raspi imager as well as Linux program Disks to write/read/verify
64Gb images and run benchmarks, which do work but show very low
read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

I'm not sure Raspi-imager will notice the card is fake. It'll write the
1-4GB image it has to the card, and if the card has let's say an 8GB real capacity then everything will go fine and it'll verify correctly. But as
soon as you start using more of the card beyond the first 8GB - eg the first time boot which resizes the partition to use the whole card - then it'll
start silently overwriting the OS.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22/05/2024 09:27, nev young wrote:

I usually use SanDisk too but had run out of the 64Gb cards.
The 32Gb cards in use, in security cameras, are getting past 92% full on
one of the cameras, hence me wanting a larger card.

Thanks for the reply, Nev. I use H2testw for capacity checking. Amazon are good for refunds, but I hope someone else doesn't have the same issue -if they read the reviews!
--
Cheers,
David
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Wed, 22 May 2024 08:10:27 +0100, nev young wrote:

... very low read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

Are you sure that’s 9Mb/s, rather than, say, 9MB/s?
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 24/05/2024 06:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 22 May 2024 08:10:27 +0100, nev young wrote:

... very low read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

Are you sure that’s 9Mb/s, rather than, say, 9MB/s?

Yup. My bad typing. 9MB/s
--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Dana 22 May 2024 18:21:14 +0100 (BST), Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> napis'o:

nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

On 20/05/2024 17:37, Theo wrote:

Knute Johnson <knute2024@585ranch.com> wrote:

On 5/20/24 09:03, nev young wrote:

Wherever I look on the internet I read that there is no difference
between TF cards and MicroSD cards.

But I have never been able to boot any of my various Pi using TF cards. >> >>> They just do not boot!

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-a-tf-card/

Yup. seen all of that before.

So TF == microSD.

and yet they don't work! At least for me.
Has anyone ever booted a Pi (of any sort) using a TF card?

There's no such thing as a TF card, aside from 20 year old ones.
MicroSD and TF are one and the same.

OP, what cards are you having problems with? Where did you buy them from? >> > Any chances they are fakes?

Both bought from, and returned to Amazon.
and yes, of course, they could be fakes.

these :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BLSDMRSW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

and these:
http://nevilley.org.uk/tmp/Untitled.png

So you got 2x512GB for £20? That sounds exceedingly dodgy. Currently a single Sandisk 512GB card is £40.

No idea about the 'Kootion' cards - but I'd stick to known brands, and avoid those shipped by marketplace sellers.

All of these cards do work and store the advertised amount of data.
Using Raspi imager as well as Linux program Disks to write/read/verify
64Gb images and run benchmarks, which do work but show very low
read/write speeds. (~9Mb/s).

I'm not sure Raspi-imager will notice the card is fake. It'll write the 1-4GB image it has to the card, and if the card has let's say an 8GB real capacity then everything will go fine and it'll verify correctly. But as soon as you start using more of the card beyond the first 8GB - eg the first time boot which resizes the partition to use the whole card - then it'll start silently overwriting the OS.

you can test the card with "badblocks -o /report -t random -swv /dev/your_sd" and see the report.
Then "cp /dev/zero /dev/your_sd" and ctrl+c after few seconds to
make clean space for partition table.

Theo

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 22 May 2024, Theo said the following...

I'm not sure Raspi-imager will notice the card is fake. It'll write the 1-4GB image it has to the card, and if the card has let's say an 8GB real capacity then everything will go fine and it'll verify correctly. But as soon as you start using more of the card beyond the first 8GB - eg the first time boot which resizes the partition to use the whole card - then it'll start silently overwriting the OS.

There's a free utility for Windows that GRC published called ValiDrive that can
help detect fake cards/usb sticks/drives, etc:

https://www.grc.com/validrive.htm


Jay

... Don't kiss an elephant on the lips today

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-06, Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> wrote:

you can test the card with "badblocks -o /report -t random -swv /dev/your_sd" and see the report.

I don't think that works - if I read the manual correct, badblocks writes
the same pattern to all blocks, it will not detect fake cards where multiple blocks map to the same memory location.

You can use f3write / f3read. Those write files with known, non-repeating patterns to fill the whole device (you need a filesystem for that), and then verify them.

cu
Michael
--
Some people have no respect of age unless it is bottled.
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 13 Jul 2024 08:17:01 GMT, Michael Schwingen wrote:

You can use f3write / f3read.

TIL: “f3” = “Fight Flash Fraud”.
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