From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power
supplies. Most come with a fairly long cord and coiling it results
in a sort of bird's nest. Shortening it might be possible for the
older Pi's, but probably not for the later USB-C models. Stock
length cables are better a foot long than an inch short, so in the
end they're all at least a little too long.

Adding usb-serial adapters for monitoring serial consoles, powered
usb hubs for external disks and the disks themselves makes for a
very confusing and hard-to-trace nightmare.

It's all made worse by a need to individually remove and replace
hosts and components without disturbing others. For example, when
testing suspect components. More than once I've unplugged the wrong
Pi to hard reset a stalled host.

There's a very old photo at http://www.zefox.net/~fbsd/pi_cluster.
Now the tangle has grown to seven Pi's plus a few hubs and drives.
The network cables were re-routed but USB and power remain a mess.
I'm working on a cleanup while waiting for the new Pi5 to arrive,
but progress isn't impressive.

Has anybody come up with a way to make the excess cable "dissapear"
while preserving the ability to change connections?

Thanks for reading, and any ideas....

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-12, <bp@www.zefox.net> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power
supplies. Most come with a fairly long cord and coiling it results
in a sort of bird's nest. Shortening it might be possible for the
older Pi's, but probably not for the later USB-C models. Stock
length cables are better a foot long than an inch short, so in the
end they're all at least a little too long.

[snip]

Spirothene.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

crn wrote:

Spirothene.

First googlewhack I've seen in ages, nowadays everything seems to match
an amazon 'brandname' ...
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power
supplies. Most come with a fairly long cord and coiling it results
in a sort of bird's nest. Shortening it might be possible for the
older Pi's, but probably not for the later USB-C models. Stock
length cables are better a foot long than an inch short, so in the
end they're all at least a little too long.

We made a cluster of 50 Pi4s in a 4U server chassis. To avoid a cabling nightmare much of the interconnect was via boards plugged into the GPIO.
They provided power and USB-serial for the UART - it also allowed power switching the Pi for hard resets. Power was daisy chained from a big
PC PSU:
https://github.com/Cambridge-AdvancedOS/cam-power-uart-hat

At the back of the box was a big USB hub and an ethernet switch, from where everything fed into a master controller Pi.

That was a custom build, but companies have similar solutions: https://www.8086.net/products

Since the Pi only needs a 5V supply, putting in power via the GPIOs avoids needing USB-C PSUs.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

crn <crn@nospam.netunix.com> wrote:

Spirothene.

What is it? Both Google search and DuckduckGo find nothing.

I started out looking for spiral cable wrap, but was surprised
to discover it usually not in stock at local retail. IIRC it was
a commonplace thing, but it's been years since I looked for it.

Here's an example, note that it's $2/foot: https://www.lowes.com/pd/D-Line-Cable-Wrap-Black-8-ft-2-5m-0-5-1-5-in-10-40mm-Expandable-Diameter/1002887174

I did find something like this: https://www.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=split%20cable%20tube
at a local auto parts store. It's much cheaper, but seemingly
also much less useful.

Either one is better than nothing, but I was hoping for a more
clever approach.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska



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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

We made a cluster of 50 Pi4s in a 4U server chassis. To avoid a cabling nightmare much of the interconnect was via boards plugged into the GPIO. They provided power and USB-serial for the UART - it also allowed power switching the Pi for hard resets. Power was daisy chained from a big
PC PSU:
https://github.com/Cambridge-AdvancedOS/cam-power-uart-hat

At the back of the box was a big USB hub and an ethernet switch, from where everything fed into a master controller Pi.

That was a custom build, but companies have similar solutions: https://www.8086.net/products

Since the Pi only needs a 5V supply, putting in power via the GPIOs avoids needing USB-C PSUs.

All are elegant, but I'm trying hard to stick with commonplace off-the-shelf components that are individually replaceable without disturbing anything else.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-12, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

crn wrote:

Spirothene.

First googlewhack I've seen in ages, nowadays everything seems to match
an amazon 'brandname' ...

Old name - now generally known as Spiral Wrap.

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-12, crn wrote:

On 2024-06-12, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

crn wrote:

Spirothene.

First googlewhack I've seen in ages, nowadays everything seems to match
an amazon 'brandname' ...

Old name - now generally known as Spiral Wrap.

Aha, thanks. I'm surprised the old name doesn't turn up in a web
search --- I got information about spirochetes (bacteria).

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

crn wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

crn wrote:

Spirothene.

First googlewhack I've seen in ages, nowadays everything seems to match
an amazon 'brandname' ...

Old name - now generally known as Spiral Wrap.

google groups search catches two previous times you've mentioned it, and that's all; and of course quoting it here no longer adds to that
history ...

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

<bp@www.zefox.net> writes:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power

/snip

Hi Bob,

Ziploc sandwich bags. Cut a small hole on each bottom corner for either
end of the cable - then seal it up.

This is an idea I just came up with. It may not solve your problem, per
se. The bundles, though, would be separated by a bag and may prove
easier to handle.

Daniel
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/12/24 08:49, Andy Burns wrote:

First googlewhack I've seen in ages

Not just Google.

I didn't get any meaningful search results on:

- Google
- DuckDuckGo
- Yandex
- Mojeek
- Baidu

- Bing linked to a Narkive post where someone mentioned their
preference for it.


Spirothene may be lost to contemporary Internet.
--
Grant. . . .
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/12/24 11:55, Daniel wrote:

Ziploc sandwich bags. Cut a small hole on each bottom corner for
either end of the cable - then seal it up.

I hadn't considered creating a hole to allow cables to sneak out of a
baggie.

I wonder if a traditional non-sealing / fold up sandwich baggie that
folds over itself might work as well without the need to make any holes.

This is an idea I just came up with. It may not solve your problem,
per se. The bundles, though, would be separated by a bag and may
prove easier to handle.

I used off brand zip-lock bags for cables during my last move. It made
the boxes of cables a LOT less messy. I could grab a baggie and pull it
out without worrying about things getting tangled. It worked fairly
well. The only thing keeping it from working great is the need to
acquire and dispose of the baggies.



Grant. . . .
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

<bp@www.zefox.net> writes:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power

/snip

Hi Bob,

Ziploc sandwich bags. Cut a small hole on each bottom corner for either
end of the cable - then seal it up.

This is an idea I just came up with. It may not solve your problem, per
se. The bundles, though, would be separated by a bag and may prove
easier to handle.

Thank you, that's the best idea so far!

bob prohaska

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-12, <bp@www.zefox.net> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power
supplies. Most come with a fairly long cord and coiling it results
in a sort of bird's nest. Shortening it might be possible for the
older Pi's, but probably not for the later USB-C models. Stock
length cables are better a foot long than an inch short, so in the
end they're all at least a little too long.

A very simple habit to form is what I've always known as "BBC
method" although apparently roadies are familiar with it too: when
coiling a cable twist it a quarter turn for each loop of the cable -
in my experience simply twisting the cable induces a loop to form
by itself so work with that and adjust it to suit the rest of the
coil.

The simple act of coiling a cable induces a twist in it, which will
try to straighten itself out after you release it. The quarter
turn compensates for that and means the cable lies straight in the
coil and lies flat once released. Some cables work better than
others, in particular cables that have been abused in the past
(including in the packet!) may be less reluctant to co-operate.
A cable tie of some form may still be needed but eliminating the
inherent twist eliminates the structural tendency towards chaos.
--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.org
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

<bp@www.zefox.net> writes:

Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:

<bp@www.zefox.net> writes:

Has anybody come up with an inexpensive way of organizing cables
among groups of Raspberry Pi hosts? The problem tends to be power

/snip

Hi Bob,

Ziploc sandwich bags. Cut a small hole on each bottom corner for either
end of the cable - then seal it up.

This is an idea I just came up with. It may not solve your problem, per
se. The bundles, though, would be separated by a bag and may prove
easier to handle.

Thank you, that's the best idea so far!

bob prohaska

I'm so glad you feel that way. Do let me know how you get along.

D
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:

On 6/12/24 11:55, Daniel wrote:

Ziploc sandwich bags. Cut a small hole on each bottom corner for
either end of the cable - then seal it up.

I hadn't considered creating a hole to allow cables to sneak out of a
baggie.

I wonder if a traditional non-sealing / fold up sandwich baggie that
folds over itself might work as well without the need to make any
holes.

It might, let me know how it works for you.

This is an idea I just came up with. It may not solve your problem,
per se. The bundles, though, would be separated by a bag and may
prove easier to handle.

I used off brand zip-lock bags for cables during my last move. It
made the boxes of cables a LOT less messy. I could grab a baggie and
pull it out without worrying about things getting tangled. It worked
fairly well. The only thing keeping it from working great is the need
to acquire and dispose of the baggies.

I typically use velcro strips purchased off amazon and take time to
nicely fold in half and fold in half and fold in half until it's a nice
bundle and zip it together.

Now that I'm considering a next chapter of computing life by adding
rpi's to the mix, this is an important thread as things I can now
consider since it never entered my mind.

Glad I stuck with usenet and IRC.

D
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 12/06/2024 21:45, Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

The simple act of coiling a cable induces a twist in it, which will
try to straighten itself out after you release it.

You should use "the over under method", to induce a twist in opposite directions with each loop. Overall, the twists cancel out.


--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> wrote:

coil and lies flat once released. Some cables work better than
others, in particular cables that have been abused in the past
(including in the packet!) may be less reluctant to co-operate.

You probably meant "less willing"?

In fact, the cables I'm dealing with are the worst of the worst.
Stiff insulation, badly kinked in the package and unwilling to
coil anywhere close to flat.

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for
the Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord,
then coil the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat-
like object which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or
split conduit. I've done a couple like this and it's ugly but better
than loose wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

A few wallwarts have extra connectors spliced on, such as a USB type C
together with a micro-USB or a cylinder jack. I think those might be
candidates for the plastic bag treatment, but the wallwarts shouldn't
go in the bag; they run warm and need air circulation.

I've still not figured out how to clean up the serial console and USB
cables, but that may not be so necessary as they're less voluminous.

Supporting the hubs, disks and Pis is still a problem. Broom clips sprung
open to hold the plastic Raspberry Pi cases edgewise seems to work OK,
but at this point the disks and hubs are just tucked in between, loose.

Thanks to everyone for writing!

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/14/24 09:27, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for the
Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord, then coil
the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat- like object
which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or split conduit.
I've done a couple like this and it's ugly but better than loose
wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains.
My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor) transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto
the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

I don't know how many loops on a coil would be needed for this to be noticeable.
--
Grant. . . .
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

In message <v4kue4$mr2$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

On 6/14/24 09:27, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for the Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord, then coil the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat- like object which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or split conduit. I've done
a couple like this and it's ugly but better than loose wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains.
My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor) transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto
the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

I don't know how many loops on a coil would be needed for this to be noticeable.

The mains cable has the live and return together all the way, twisted,
so the field cancels out. The transformer effect will never become
noticeable, no matter how many turns.

David
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

On 6/14/24 09:27, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for the
Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord, then coil
the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat- like object which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or split conduit.
I've done a couple like this and it's ugly but better than loose
wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains.
My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor) transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto
the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

I don't know how many loops on a coil would be needed for this to be noticeable.

Without an iron core of some sort I doubt if there's much risk.
However wiring regulations require that mains carrying cables should
be either 50mm away from low voltage ones or that there should be
'mechanical separation' between mains and low voltage wiring. (That's
the basics anyway).
--
Chris Green
·
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

On 6/14/24 09:27, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for the
Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord, then coil
the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat- like object
which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or split conduit.
I've done a couple like this and it's ugly but better than loose
wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains.
My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor)
transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto
the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high
voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

I don't know how many loops on a coil would be needed for this to be
noticeable.

Without an iron core of some sort I doubt if there's much risk.
However wiring regulations require that mains carrying cables should
be either 50mm away from low voltage ones or that there should be
'mechanical separation' between mains and low voltage wiring. (That's
the basics anyway).

I hadn't considered electrical codes 8-) I suspect that very few
computer setups in homes observe a 50 mm separation rule, at
least here in the US. Still a picky inspector might take issue.

Thanks!

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

On 6/14/24 09:27, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

One approach that sort-of works is to plug two walwarts (one for the
Pi, one for the hub) into a single 3-outlet extension cord, then coil >> > the excess wire (both mains and 5-volt) around the cleat- like object >> > which results and hold it in place by a cable tie or split conduit.
I've done a couple like this and it's ugly but better than loose
wires. One can at least see where each Pi plugs in.

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains. >> My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor)
transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto >> the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high >> voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

I don't know how many loops on a coil would be needed for this to be
noticeable.

Without an iron core of some sort I doubt if there's much risk.
However wiring regulations require that mains carrying cables should
be either 50mm away from low voltage ones or that there should be 'mechanical separation' between mains and low voltage wiring. (That's
the basics anyway).

I hadn't considered electrical codes 8-) I suspect that very few
computer setups in homes observe a 50 mm separation rule, at
least here in the US. Still a picky inspector might take issue.

I'm quoting UK codes of course. I *think* mechanical separation would
be satisfied by an extra layer of sleeving over the actual wires
carrying the mains voltage. It is now a requirement in the UK (and EU
I believe) that all mains leads are sheathed, you can't use the
'figure of eight' twin flex that used to be quite common.
--
Chris Green
·
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Chris Green wrote:

bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I hadn't considered electrical codes 8-) I suspect that very few
computer setups in homes observe a 50 mm separation rule, at
least here in the US. Still a picky inspector might take issue.

I'm quoting UK codes of course. I *think* mechanical separation would
be satisfied by an extra layer of sleeving over the actual wires
carrying the mains voltage. It is now a requirement in the UK (and EU
I believe) that all mains leads are sheathed, you can't use the
'figure of eight' twin flex that used to be quite common.

Electrical codes only apply to the fixed wiring of the building, not to
power cords, trailing 4-way extension leads, USB, HDMI and ethernet cables.

--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I hadn't considered electrical codes 8-) I suspect that very few
computer setups in homes observe a 50 mm separation rule, at
least here in the US. Still a picky inspector might take issue.

I'm quoting UK codes of course. I *think* mechanical separation would
be satisfied by an extra layer of sleeving over the actual wires
carrying the mains voltage. It is now a requirement in the UK (and EU
I believe) that all mains leads are sheathed, you can't use the
'figure of eight' twin flex that used to be quite common.

Electrical codes only apply to the fixed wiring of the building, not to power cords, trailing 4-way extension leads, USB, HDMI and ethernet cables.

But power cords are required to be sheathed aren't they?
--
Chris Green
·
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 08:52:06 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Electrical codes only apply to the fixed wiring of the building, not to power cords, trailing 4-way extension leads, USB, HDMI and ethernet
cables.

True enough other regulations apply to plugs, cables, extension
blocks etc. restricting what can be sold rather than how it is used.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 17/06/2024 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

I hadn't considered electrical codes 8-) I suspect that very few
computer setups in homes observe a 50 mm separation rule, at
least here in the US. Still a picky inspector might take issue.

I'm quoting UK codes of course.  I *think* mechanical separation would
be satisfied by an extra layer of sleeving over the actual wires
carrying the mains voltage.  It is now a requirement in the UK (and EU
I believe) that all mains leads are sheathed, you can't use the
'figure of eight' twin flex that used to be quite common.

Electrical codes only apply to the fixed wiring of the building, not to power cords, trailing 4-way extension leads, USB, HDMI and ethernet cables.

+1

And like the pirate code, they are more guidelines
--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 17:04:53 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

And like the pirate code, they are more guidelines

More than that - watch what happens to the fire insurance claim
when they find the place wasn't wired to code.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 6/17/24 02:52, Andy Burns wrote:

Electrical codes only apply to the fixed wiring of the building, not to power cords, trailing 4-way extension leads, USB, HDMI and ethernet cables.

Agreed.

Though the Fire Martial sure can have a lot to say about it and building occupation being legal or not.
--
Grant. . . .
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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 17/06/2024 10:51, Chris Green wrote:

But power cords are required to be sheathed aren't they?

If you don't want lots of little power cords, yes.

The correct term is double insulated.

---druck


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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-13, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

On 12/06/2024 21:45, Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

The simple act of coiling a cable induces a twist in it, which will
try to straighten itself out after you release it.

You should use "the over under method", to induce a twist in opposite directions with each loop. Overall, the twists cancel out.

Different way of achieving the same result. I looked it up and
tried it and yes it works but it just seems a more involved process
that doesn't commit to muscle memory in quite the same way but that
is probably more habit than anything else, indeed playing with
these things I found it hard _not_ to automatically apply the BBC
method.
--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.org
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2024-06-15, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

I would be careful -> avoid coiling low voltage with high voltage mains.
My concern is that you would end up with something akin to a (poor) transformer of sorts. Wherein the high voltage mains would couple onto
the low voltage lines. At a 1:1 ratio, you'd end up with the same high voltage on the low voltage secondary side.

No.

You would need to check the voltage between the two ends of a wire, which is near zero, and *that* voltage would be transformed to the secondary (low-voltage) side, not the voltage between the two wires.

Furthermore, the fields from the two conductors with opposite current
direction nearly cancel out, which reduces the effect even more.

cu
Michael
--
Some people have no respect of age unless it is bottled.
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