Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den - historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My perosnal
laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended
its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser (no streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu
LTS.
Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to
access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like my
roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
Thanks,
Daniel
Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den - historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My perosnal
laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended
its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser (no streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu
LTS. Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to
access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like my
roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
Thanks,
Daniel
On 08/06/2024 at 19:52, Daniel wrote:
Hey guys
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu
LTS.
You do realise RPi is an ARM machine not an x86(_64) so VMs will also be ARM. Kubuntu + ARM doesn't seem to exist.
On 08/06/2024 at 19:52, Daniel wrote:
Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den -
historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the
deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new
venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My
perosnal
laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3
with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop
computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended
its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser
(no
streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest
Kubuntu
LTS.
You do realise RPi is an ARM machine not an x86(_64) so VMs will also
be ARM. Kubuntu + ARM doesn't seem to exist.
--- Synchronet 3.19b-Win32 NewsLink 1.113Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to
access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like
my
roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but
inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient
stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
Thanks,
Daniel
No I didn't and thanks for alerting me on that. I thought the VM's could >specify architecture.
Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den - historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My perosnal
laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended
its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser (no streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu
LTS. Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to
access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like my
roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> wrote:
Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den - historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My perosnal laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser (no streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu LTS. Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like my roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
I use RPis in various ways but for my desktop and backup machines I
use Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 and Q557, very small box with PSU and disk
drives within in, power consumption about 5 watts so down in the same--
sort of area as the Pi.
I too am almost 100% command line but I do run a GUI, mostly for using
the web browser.
--
Chris Green
·
Daniel wrote:
No I didn't and thanks for alerting me on that. I thought the VM's could >>specify architecture.
Actually ARM Docker can run x86 images, but expect it to be sluggish.
On 6/8/24 13:52, Daniel wrote:
Hey guys
In an effort to simplify the computing setup in my den - historically
the hottest room in the house - the current consideration is in the
deployment of a few rpis. Never used them before and this would be a new
venture.
My current home-computing habits are 90% on the linux CLI. My perosnal
laptop runs a debian install without a windowing system, which suits
me.
My desktop workhorse, in the den, is a very old first gen Intel I3 with
8gb or ram. When I obtained it, the device was being resold at a mom&pop
computer shop after it was purchased from a government auction. It had
been retired after a PC refresh. The thing is showing its age. Initially
it was running kubuntu, then I transitioned it to Xubuntu. This extended
its life a few years. But now the machine is showing signs of
instability. It's connected on a KVM and I switch to my work laptop
since I"m a permanent remote employee.
Current xwindows use cases: libreoffice, qt designer, light browser (no
streaming), light printing.
What I'm considering:
A headless Rpi4 as a VM server and setup a VM with the latetest Kubuntu
LTS. Connect my external HDD and flash drives via a 16 port USB hub to
access all my files - which I currently do with my workstation.
My desktop PC would be replaced by a Rpi4 running Debian CLI (like my
roaming laptop). I considered the Pi400 but I would need a second
keyboard for my work laptop when I kvm over, not a deal breaker but
inconvenient. Too bad, because the 400 is quite compelling for my uses.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case? Or woauld XFCE make more
sense? I'd consider the Rpi5 if it were fanless, but people on IRC
insist that it takes a major performance hit without active cooling.
Thanks,
Daniel
I've got a Pi5 8GB with a Pimoroni NVME Base, a 250GB NVME SSD and a RaspberryPi Active Cooler. RPi has a M.2 HAT now that would work fine
too but I don't know if the Active Cooler will work with it. The active cooler is almost silent
and unless I do something really CPU intensive
it never speeds up to a speed where I can hear it (that could partially
be because of 40 years of jet engines too :-)
It is running RPi OS bookworm. It is a light weight GUI similar to XFCE that I have on my desktop. It's really pretty snappy, much better than
a Pi4. You can run Wayland or X11 if it matters to you.
Not sure why you would want a VM without multiple OSs installed?
In any
case if I want a full screen command line it is just <CTRL><ALT>F1 and
the screen switches. You can set it up to boot into the command line if you want and then start the windowing system if you need it.
The Pi5 is almost to the point of really being a desktop replacement.
Maybe when the Pi6 comes out.
On 08/06/2024 22:22, Knute Johnson wrote:
I've got a Pi5 8GB with a Pimoroni NVME Base, a 250GB NVME SSD and a
RaspberryPi Active Cooler. RPi has a M.2 HAT now that would work fine
too but I don't know if the Active Cooler will work with it. The
active cooler is almost silent
It's not so much "almost silent", as totally silent. It is quite noisy
when it spins up, it just that, under Pi OS, it doesn't spin up unless
under extreme load.
and unless I do something really CPU intensive it never speeds up to a
speed where I can hear it (that could partially be because of 40 years
of jet engines too :-)
Look at it, the reason the fan looks stationary, is because it is stationary. It's not a strobe effect. Stick something in it, if you
don't believe me.
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case?
Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> writes:
Daniel wrote:
No I didn't and thanks for alerting me on that. I thought the VM's could >>specify architecture.
Actually ARM Docker can run x86 images, but expect it to be sluggish.
Debian is home to me and there is an ARM version so I'll likely go that route. Still evaluating.
Pi OS images are designed to be relashed to a Pi SD card, so don't UEFI
which is probably the way KVM/QEMU wants to boot them. There are generic
Arm server images which probably will boot, and you can then install GUI packages. You won't get GPU acceleration as there's no idea of Pi GPU passthrough.
On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 18:52:41 +0000, Daniel wrote:
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case?
My gut feeling is, the cost of a Pi is so low, why not take the risk of buying it, trying it and seeing for yourself how it works out?
On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 18:52:41 +0000, Daniel wrote:
In your collective experience, would this provide sufficient stability
to run a VM server with my light use case?
My gut feeling is, the cost of a Pi is so low, why not take the risk of buying it, trying it and seeing for yourself how it works out?
Pi OS images are designed to be relashed to a Pi SD card, so don't UEFI
which is probably the way KVM/QEMU wants to boot them.
The Pi5 is almost to the point of really being a desktop replacement.
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 16:22:24 -0500, Knute Johnson wrote:
The Pi5 is almost to the point of really being a desktop replacement.
“Replacement” for what other desktops in that price range?
Maybe compared to something second-hand that is 10 years old, and consumes 10× the power, perhaps.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
"Replacement" for what other desktops in that price range?
Maybe compared to something second-hand that is 10 years old, and consumes >> 10x the power, perhaps.
I think you're a bit behind the times there. PCs (as in x86_64 based)
can now be found, even second hand, that consume only four or five
watts. I have a number of Fujitsu Esprimo systems (Q557 and Q957) with
power consumption down around five watts, I'm sure there are other manufacturers' systems similar.
Refurbished Q556s can be bought for around ?50 which compares
pretty favourably with a Pi 5, plus case, plus power supply, etc.
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
"Replacement" for what other desktops in that price range?
Maybe compared to something second-hand that is 10 years old, and consumes
10x the power, perhaps.
I think you're a bit behind the times there. PCs (as in x86_64 based)
can now be found, even second hand, that consume only four or five
watts. I have a number of Fujitsu Esprimo systems (Q557 and Q957) with power consumption down around five watts, I'm sure there are other manufacturers' systems similar.
Interesting, did you find somewhere online that told you this
before buying one? The specs I find for them are just the power
supply wattage (and even that can take a lot of hunting sometimes),
which for the Fujitsu Esprimo Q557 is 65W. I tried to find details
about idle power consumption for these mini desktop systems and
never got anywhere, except for x86_64 SBCs, so I bought one of them
instead (similar wattage to what you quote, but a slower CPU).
Refurbished Q556s can be bought for around ?50 which compares
pretty favourably with a Pi 5, plus case, plus power supply, etc.
If there was a physical shop selling them nearby me I'd turn up
there with a power meter in-hand. It's very frustrating that the manufacturers don't talk about it (though RPi don't either, users
just happen to post their own measurements online in places I can
find).
On 14 Jun 2024 09:59:17 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
Pi OS images are designed to be relashed to a Pi SD card, so don't UEFI which is probably the way KVM/QEMU wants to boot them.
Note the difference between KVM and QEMU: KVM is the virtualization architecture built into the Linux kernel, which allows it to run virtual machines of the same architecture type as the physical hardware it’s on, using the virtualization capabilities of that same hardware.
QEMU is a collection of software emulators for a whole lot of different architectures, regardless of the actual hardware you run it on. It offers sufficient fidelity to the original hardware to support booting of OSes
that were specifically written for that hardware. But being software-
based, it will usually be slower than the actual hardware.
When QEMU is asked to emulate architecture X when the physical hardware is that same architecture X, then you can ask it to bring in KVM to run the emulated OS at something close to native hardware speed. Note this is not something that happens automatically, if you don’t ask for it.
I agree absolutely about the almost total lack of actual power
consumption figures for PCs. It took me a long, long time to find
some useful figures. I did find something in the end though, it's a spreadsheet from 'EU Energy Star', the one I have is a few years old
but it covers systems up to four or five years ago so is ideal for refurbished systems like the Esprimo ones above. (That should be Q556
not Q557 by the way).
The file name of the actual spreadsheet I have is:-
eu_energy_star_computers_61_-_20180220.xlsx
I think searching for that name should get you somewhere, but if not
then drop me an E-Mail (valid address here) and I'll send you a copy.
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
I agree absolutely about the almost total lack of actual power
consumption figures for PCs. It took me a long, long time to find
some useful figures. I did find something in the end though, it's a
spreadsheet from 'EU Energy Star', the one I have is a few years old
but it covers systems up to four or five years ago so is ideal for
refurbished systems like the Esprimo ones above. (That should be Q556
not Q557 by the way).
The file name of the actual spreadsheet I have is:-
eu_energy_star_computers_61_-_20180220.xlsx
Oh, that's super useful: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/publications/eu-energy-star-qualified-products-eu-market_en
For those wondering (I had to look it up):
Short-idle mode means [snip]
I think you're a bit behind the times there. PCs (as in x86_64 based)
can now be found, even second hand, that consume only four or five
watts.
Correct, but you have to look hard to find that information before buying.
My always-on machine which does mail server / monitoring / mqtt and lots
of other light stuff together with a desktop for when I don't need the big machine is an Intel NUC D34010 - 16GB RAM, SATA SSD, uses about 5W when sitting idle at the desktop (measured).
BTW the NUC and the kind of are not bad - but non had more than one LAN port + power consumption + price.
It is a disappointment what happened after 2008 ... but not going into politics and economics. Just have a look at Alibaba/AliExpres.
I bought Acresser devices in 2007/2008 right before the financial melt down. They cost 250 US and were kind of picky to set up. Last year one of them
died (well the ide-to-CF controller gave up). The cool thing about those
were that they used max.12W. I started looking everywhere (in the west). I couldn't find anything useful. Min. power consumption >60W and costs >600,- ... and then I went to Alibaba/AliExpres ... it felt like I found a
treasury.
BTW the NUC and the kind of are not bad - but non had more than one LAN port + power consumption + price.
| Sysop: | Steven Bennett |
|---|---|
| Location: | Phenix City, AL |
| Users: | 210 |
| Nodes: | 4 (0 / 4) |
| Uptime: | 139:18:46 |
| Calls: | 8,936 |
| Calls today: | 4 |
| Files: | 5,620 |
| Messages: | 46,110 |